Scottish Independence (the sequel)

Scottishbloke, you're getting too aggressive - and I'm sorry mate, but I have to say I don't share your optimism with regard to the 'facts' that you've quoted.

I actually thought there were a fair few Scots on here, don't know about mostly English, but there's more than enough Scots and other nationalities, I think, to be able to provide to a discussion. It's not xenophobia from England, and I think you're wrong to use this vote as an anti England campaign. When you said the English have long been envious of Scottish people, where is the evidence to base that statement on?

For starters - look at some of the key people campaigning for the better together vote (which I agree with by the way) - Alastair Darling and Gordon Brown. It's not xenophobia towards Scotland there is it? They're not English are they? Alastair Darling may have been born in London but he has Scottish ancestry.

I've said before I respect your views a lot of the time on this forum. But I just can't see where your evidence is to support these facts that you talk about with regards to this referendum?

I think the british government is unrepresentative of the majority of english people, not just of the scottish!

I think it is always the case that unless you have a hardline political allegiance to a party and subsequent blinkered view, whoever is in parliament be it westminster of holyrood will fuck over the majority.

My opinion if devo max was on the ticket it would win by a landslide. Financial security, military security and more independence.... it is why i think NO will win....

David Cameron didn't want to offer devo max originally because opinion polls showed a no vote would win (when the whole idea of Scotland becoming independent was first mentioned) he's only offering it now trying to buy back "yes" votes, after all the actual full title of the Tory party is the Conservative & unionist party of great Britain,& probably dosn't want to be remembered as the prime minister who broke up the uk.

I think Scottishbloke has started on the 'heavy' a day early! Having said that, I spoke to a Virgin Media engineer this afternoon as my internet dropped out. He was in the Scottish call centre and obviously as pissed as a fart. No use whatsoever. I sense Scotland descending into anarchy for the next 24 hours or so.

One of the key concerns of the 'no' camp is that Scotland wouldn't have control over their own currency if they adopted the pound. Yet no state in the Eurozone has local control over the Euro as the rate is governed by the European Central Bank. That seems to be a perfectly acceptable political model, so why is Scotland adopting the pound different? This is a genuine question.

(17-09-2014 19:53 )Regenerated Wrote:  Scottishbloke, you're getting too aggressive - and I'm sorry mate

I've said before I respect your views a lot of the time on this forum.

Yes well it's a pity we're not debating Studio66.................

It does make a difference when it's politics and not boobie shows we're discussing here, a bit more at stake I'm sure you'll all agree

With regards to any suggestions that I've already started on the soup wagon, no, I won't be celebrating until Friday when hopefully it'll be a Yes vote.

If the outcome is No then I'll probably shed a tear or 2 knowing that this once in a lifetime achievement has failed.

Latest polls suggest that the Yes vote is back up to 49% - Let's make it happen, this is not about the SNP or Alex Salmond it's about Scotlands destiny being solely in the hands of the Scottish people

(17-09-2014 20:43 )Digital Dave Wrote:  One of the key concerns of the 'no' camp is that Scotland wouldn't have control over their own currency if they adopted the pound. Yet no state in the Eurozone has local control over the Euro as the rate is governed by the European Central Bank. That seems to be a perfectly acceptable political model, so why is Scotland adopting the pound different? This is a genuine question.

The difference is that (in theory) the ECB sets monetary policy on the basis of what is best for the Eurozone, whereas the Bank Of England is only concerned with the UK and any effect on Scotland would be of little or no concern.

They would have no control over interest rates, no place on the Monetary Policy Committee and, most importantly, no Lender of Last Resort should the Scottish Banks (which are still well & truly buggered) go tits up again. In the Eurozone, the ECB would step in and prop up a Member State's Bank if it were in trouble. The only option the Scots would have is to go cap in hand to the IMF and their chances of raising finance on the markets would be severely damaged after that.

Salmond's plan to hold the UK to ransom over the Currency Union is doomed to failure. The Yes brigade still haven't grasped that you can't be independent whilst effectively being Mortgaged to another country.


In spite of Scottishbloke's claims, none of this has anything to do with Xenophobia and everything to do with Financial realities. Oil or no oil, you still need to borrow to run a country.

(17-09-2014 01:44 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  

(16-09-2014 22:21 )Scottishbloke Wrote:  Fact - Scotland alone will be richer than the rest of the UK put together, we have all the resources and have long been the envy of the English people.

Fact - We will be one of the main players in the European Union, nobody will dictate to us, it'll be the other way around.

Care to share the source of these 'facts'?

Or are they just facts because you say they are........ otherwise known as rhetoric.

(17-09-2014 03:05 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  

(17-09-2014 02:29 )Scottishbloke Wrote:  The Silent Majority to answer your question, if you do your research you'll see that Scotland is worth Billions hence the reason the English don't want to lose us because in effect we could bankrupt them.

That doesn't answer my question, it sidesteps it.
If you want to convince me to vote yes, show me the source of your 'facts'.
Both of them.

No? I thought not.

You have stated your opinions, which you are perfectly entitled to do, but don't try and dress them up as facts when they clearly aren't.

There is only one fact about how Scotland will be as an independent country, and that is - there are no facts, only conjecture, from both sides.

It is a lot of conjecture on both sides - but that's all the more reason why undecided voters will be the key to this.

In my opinion undecided voters should vote no because I believe you have to be 100% certain to be able to place a yes vote. How many people, truthfully, can say they are 100% certain that an independent Scotland would work? It would be reckless to gamble the future of both nations and the lives of people in those nations to vote yes when there's been so little, credible statement from the pro independence campaign.

I,m all for Scottish independence if it means we get rid of a shit load of labour MPs in the process.

(17-09-2014 22:07 )lancealot790 Wrote:  I,m all for Scottish independence if it means we get rid of a shit load of labour MPs in the process.

Even without Scotland they would have been in power from 1997 to 2010.